Note: I started this coffee break series to tide readers over between longer blog posts. I’m having to travel more recently, and rather than leave the blog populated by guest posts (of which I’m getting a rash of offers in the mail, mostly from bingo parlors in Hong Kong) or worse yet, content-less. Caffe’ Ristretto (as explained by Wikipedia) just means a shot of espresso with less water, and less resulting coffee oils. The taste is supposed to be more nuanced. For me, I’m not that nuanced. It’s just good coffee.
Lucky for us we don’t have debtors’ prisons any longer. Or do we? This from the Wall Street Journal:
Welcome to Debtors’ Prison, 2011 Edition
Some lawmakers, judges and regulators are trying to rein in the U.S. debt-collection industry’s use of arrest warrants to recoup money owed by borrowers who are behind on credit-card payments, auto loans and other bills. More than a third of all U.S. states allow borrowers who can’t or won’t pay to be jailed. Judges have signed off on more than 5,000 such warrants since the start of 2010 in nine counties with a total population of 13.6 million people, according to a tally by The Wall Street Journal of filings in those counties. Nationwide figures aren’t known because many courts don’t keep track of warrants by alleged offense. In interviews, 20 judges across the nation said the number of borrowers threatened with arrest in their courtrooms has surged since the financial crisis began
How about the modern north American house, that most sanctified corner of personal wealth. Could that be considered a comfortable jail? Well-provisioned with all the comforts of modern life, food and water and liveable year-round temperatures. Well-mortgaged with a thirty year note against our earning life. One could say it’s just a matter of degrees. From Wikipedia:
In the Kingdom of Great Britain and the later United Kingdom, debtors’ prisons varied in the amount of freedom they allowed the debtor. With a little money, a debtor could pay for some freedoms; some prisons allowed inmates to conduct business and to receive visitors; others (including the Fleet and King’s Bench Prisons) even allowed inmates to live a short distance outside the prison — a practice known as the ‘Liberty of the Rules’ — and the Fleet even tolerated clandestine ‘Fleet Marriages‘.
OK, maybe the analogy is a little extreme. Our homes are our castles, filled as they are with our personal possessions, freely obtained through the use of MasterCard and American Express.
To close this out, we have Dr. Samuel Johnson (poet, essayist, literary critic) on Debtors’ Prisons:
“It is vain to continue an institution which experience shows to be ineffectual. We have now imprisoned one generation of debtors after another, but we do not find that their numbers lessen. We have now learned, that rashness and imprudence will not be deterred from taking credit; let us try whether fraud and avarice may be more easily restrained from giving it.” Johnson: Idler #22 (September 16, 1758)
I am sure that it is a good idea that we don’t have debtor’s prisons anymore. The prisons are full enough as it is. Although, I must admit that there are a few I would like to throw in one (people who owe me money).
cashflowmantra recently posted..How to Get Started Investing in Options
Maybe that’s where the word “deadbeats” originated from. Beat until dead.
Dickens certainly had some nice descriptions of debtor’s prisons in some of his works. I’m old fashioned and personally favor a few days in the stockade where people can pelt debtors with rotten fruit and vegetables, or a good public flogging. Chronic offenders today probably do deserve some kind of punishment that inflicts pain on their lifestyle.
The Biz of Life recently posted..Quote of the Day: Victor Davis Hanson
Hi Biz – I’m not so much for corporal punishment or imprisonment administered by the state (although like CFM I have a few deserving people in mind!). I would though favor free-market prisons where they could compete for inmates, by the quality of their service and accommodation. Inmates could then have a chance to make restitution to their creditors, under good conditions.
Don’t we put enough people behind bars already? Except a token few, how many were arrested for the mortgage fraud? Think BofA.
MoneyCone recently posted..Using PayPal To Send Money? The Deal Just Got Sweeter!
@ MC,
Not enough, that’s for sure. The foreclosure fraud mess should have seen *way* more indictments than it has so far. A lot of white-collar criminals have gotten away scot-free.
Interesting. I don’t think we should put any more people behind bars than we have too but I think as a society we need to be more accountable for our actions and how they effect others. Whether that be prison or not I don’t know, but if you ask me we live in a very selfish society these days and being in national debt is just one bi product of it.
Miss T @ Prairie Eco-Thrifter recently posted..Are You Wasting Valuable Energy and Money?
Hi Miss T
Hard to disagree with you on that one. Selfishness is rife.
Me Me Me Me, gimme gimme gimme. Whaddaya mean you don’t have my free stuff?!
I agree with Samuel Johnson, it doesn’t change behavior. I don’t think anyone has come up with a way to change behavior.
Maggie@SquarePennies recently posted..50 Easy Pumpkin Crafts for Fall and Halloween
Maggie – human beings are what they are, you can’t fix stupid.
Rashness and imprudence are alive and well in the 21st century, apparently. How about another prison for those that loan money with equal rashness and imprudence? lol.
Hunter @ Financially Consumed recently posted..Family Life Insurance – Unequal Income Identical Needs
I think the punishment for those who loan money rashly used to be that they lost it. A rescuing government didn’t rush in and make good with taxpayer funds.
I was thinking about this some more. They used to have “poor farms” in many US states a couple of generations ago. I guess it was a version of welfare back then. It was a bit shameful for anyone to live there, but it was a solution to helping destitute people. I guess the shame of it was a bit of a deterrent.
Maggie@SquarePennies recently posted..Pension Secure? Don’t Count on It
Now there’s a sound idea. If there is to be a role for government, that’s one right there. I think though that these poor farms used to be managed by private charities as well.
Debtor’s prison would only make it worse because how will the debt be repaid. U.S debt can be resolved if our politicians would actually work together to try to solve the problem.
krantcents recently posted..How I Cut My Expenses?
Err, I’m sorry KC, did you say “politicians working together?”
Love your analogy of the modern American home as a debtor prison! This is most definitely true for many Americans these days. No need to put these people behind bars – they are already there!
The $60K Project recently posted..Side Hustle: How to Make Money Pet Sitting
Velvet bars on the window. So soft you don’t even notice them.
Very thoughtful. I am not crazy about the McMansions, many mortgaged to the hilt. How many families need humongous homes for a family of 4 or 5?
Barb Friedberg recently posted..USE A COMMERCIAL TO PROMOTE YOUR BRAND
@ Barb – not a question of needs, but wants. If energy gets as expensive as some market forecasters seem to think it will, then possibly the McMansion concept and lifestyle will go away on its own.
I like Johnson’s approach. Put shoddy lenders in jail. But what if instead of using law enforcement to collect on debt at all we just let lenders make bad loans and not be able collect on them. The industry would be less lucrative because there would be to much risk and perhaps shrink down to just lenders and borrowers who felt they could trust each other.
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Hi Mike – Consequences have a great way of modifying behavior. Stick your hand on the stove, get burned, *don’t* do it again.
Lend half a million to a biker and a stripper to buy a tract home in Vegas, *don’t* flip the loan to Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae, get defaulted on the loan, and *do* lose all the principal.
That’d fix that.
Amen to that.
Existing socio-economic systems dictate the way sectors of society think and act. Living with the times, as they say. It takes more courage to think on your own than be swayed by the current. Putting all the offenders in prison won’t change the system, I think. Maybe it’s time we assess our intrinsic values, as a nation? It helps tons to do it as a bunch instead of going through it alone.
Amy Turner @ Credit Donkey recently posted..Coffee and Credit Cards: Small Transactions for Big Success
Hey there “Amy Turner”
This is one of the better spammy comments I’ve seen in a while. Somewhat referential to the article, and semi-coherent syntax. Whatever spam plug-in or piece of software you’re using, it’s not bad at all.
Semi-coherent? How do you define that? Haven’t heard one such “?” in my lifetime? What do you think, am I a bot?
Amy Turner @ Credit Donkey recently posted..What Makes Small Businesses Sink or Swim?
I’m glad we don’t have debtor’s prisons anymore – that would just mean more taxes for tax payers! However, requiring debtors to go to a non-profit finance class might be something I’d feel more willing to pay taxes on.
Little House recently posted..Debt Relief Strategies that Work
Hi LH – I wonder, would the cost of enforcing this rule be as much, or more or less than the cost of the debtor prison?
Interesting piece; prison doesn’t do much to deter drug use and other offenses, probably not unreasonable to assume it won’t deter (or help repay) debts either.
Darwin’s Money recently posted..9% Risk-Free Return in 1 Month: See How I Did It
Hi Darwin – prison does *nothing* for drug use. Even in the strictest security prisons, inmates can find all the drugs they want.
[...] Centavos: A Brief Look At Debtor’s Prison – Many years back, debtor’s prison were an acceptable way of dealing with deadbeat [...]
[...] Centavos: A Brief Look At Debtor’s Prison – Many years back, debtor’s prison were an acceptable way of dealing with deadbeat [...]
[...] Centavos: A Brief Look At Debtor’s Prison – Many years back, debtor’s prison were an acceptable way of dealing with deadbeat [...]